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Simulation

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7:49 pm
April 12, 2011


simple1248

California

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Post edited 10:45 pm - April 12, 2011 by simple1248


Is it a coincidence that we exist on the verge of a technological singularity?

The technological singularity represents a point in technological development beyond which it is very difficult to make predictions. This is to say that nobody can be certain whether the singularity will be good or bad for the human condition.

It would make sense for a species on the verge of a projected singularity to run multiple simulations of the event in order to collect data on a real world outcome. This would allow the creators of the simulation to observe what might actually be expected from a singularity.

The more simulations that are tested the more reliable the results would be when applied to a "real world" singularity.

The universe we exist in may be one of many simulations designed to test run a "real world" singularity.

Or, perhaps it would be a wise, cautionary move for us to wait on pursuing the singularity until we can test run reliable singularity simulations ourselves.

 

11:11 pm
April 12, 2011


KimSolez

Edmonton, AB, Canada

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Kevin Kelly's book What Technology Wants is very persuasive in arguing that technology has inevitable momentum which cannot be stopped.  The Singularity one imagines will happen regardless of what we do as individuals.  We cannot wait until we are ready and then have it.  By definition we will not really be ready for it.

On the other hand, Kevin Kelly's Singularity 1 on 1 Interview here on Singularity Weblog demonstrates that Kelly himself does not really believe in the Singularity as described by Ray Kurzweil and considers it an example of "thinkism".

11:41 pm
April 12, 2011


simple1248

California

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Post edited 5:00 pm - April 13, 2011 by Socrates


This is a link to a rather lengthy video (fully worthwhile) in which David Chalmers, a distinguished modern philosopher specializing in philosophy of mind, discusses the approach by which superintelligence might be achieved. He proposes that superintelligence in the form of AI will likely evolve in simulations.

David Chalmers at Singularity Summit 2009 — Simulation and the Singularity

The video starts slow, but there are some real gems discussed in it.

12:29 am
April 13, 2011


Nathan Wosnack

Vancouver, Canada

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Post edited 12:46 am - April 13, 2011 by Nathan Wosnack


The more simulations that are tested the more reliable the results would be when applied to a "real world" singularity.

With the exponential growth of profound technological change, which will – according to the Law of Accelerating Returns – be at a rate of 20,000 years of progress in the 21st century (instead of 100 years of progress in the century when thinking linearly), we may very well reach the Singularity that Ray Kurzweil hypothesises around 2045. While the Singularity may be inevitable regardless of how many Singularity simulations and models computer scientists run, it's valuable to pay attention to the lower-level (but still very relevant to our progress) achievements being made today.

The remarkable work that tens of thousands of scientists are doing pertaining to the simulations and models for understanding the operation of the human brain – obtained from high-resolution data – which have, according to The Singularity is Near, shown to successfully simulate neurons and subcellular portions with technology of even 6 years ago (when the book was written). With the increasing power of mathematical tools (i.e. Stephen Wolfram's Mathematica) and computational power/database speed/storage, we will see new scanning tools, like extremely high resolution fMRI, and eventually new better next-generation models and simulations. Simulating parts of brains, animal brains, and eventually the entire human brain could be a real possibility in the near future.

Further discussion about the Singularity on his coined term thinkism, from the point of view of Kevin Kelly, can be found in this compelling September 2008 article on his site.

8:43 am
April 13, 2011


KimSolez

Edmonton, AB, Canada

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Simple1248 there is no need to apologize for Chalmers' video beginning slow; if repetition is an important element of good teaching, this begins with really good teaching! Once watched you will find the messages quite memorable. This is the probably the best source anywhere from which to learn these ideas!

10:55 am
April 13, 2011


Nikki Olson

Moderator

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Post edited 11:16 am - April 13, 2011 by Socrates


Hi simple1248,

Thank you for posting the Chlamers video. I attended that Summit and enjoyed very much Chalmers' presentation. I really like Chalmers myself, especially his 'dancing qualia' argument. 

But hey, if you are a Chalmers fan, have you seen this debate that he had with Searle on a panel discussion about consciousness?: 

The debate between the two regarding AI starts at 1 min 48. 

Do Brains Make Minds? (4 of 4) by theobservereffect

Nikki Olson

 

1:50 pm
April 13, 2011


CMStewart

east coast USA

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Great debate. Studing the mind is like a microscope trying to magnify its magnification apparatus.

Humans to AI: "Do as we say, not as we do."

5:54 pm
April 13, 2011


simple1248

California

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Post edited 6:13 pm - April 13, 2011 by Socrates


That was a good video Nikki, I will have to look into the dancing qualia argument. I find the classical "Chinese Room Argument"
to be, well, classic. I appreciated when Chalmers mentioned studies
have shown feral children become feral adults regardless of intelligence
indicating a distinction between a human mind with cultural
intelligence vs. feral mind.

"The Secret Life of Chaos" is a brilliant documentary that touches on the topic of creating AI in a simulated environment in a way that relates to the OP.

If you're short for time skip to about @2:15

I find the prospect of picking and choosing what direction we want the singularity to go is the most appealing or least terrifying way forward. A democratic singularity in which those who select (vote) the future might have insight into the direction it goes. Perhaps through developing AI in a simulated environment that is intended to copy our own environment we can gain said insight and use it in a democratic process all while potentially averting an "evil" AI disaster.

6:29 pm
April 13, 2011


Nikki Olson

Moderator

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Post edited 6:31 pm - April 13, 2011 by Nikki Olson


Simple1248 (ha ha, just caught the meaning of your name), 

That's the best video I've seen on A-life to date. Thank you for sharing! I am thinking that Stephen Wolfram et al. will have some kind of breakthrough with regards to computational universe algorithms and then simulations will really pick up. It's exciting to think about. And this video illustrates well the possibility of our being in a matrix.

 

Meeting Chalmers was exciting. He was staying in the same hotel as most of the guests attending the conference, and sat in the bar for dinner etc. for a few nights. So many people ran into him I think and got the chance to spend time with him. 

 

Incidentally, at the Singularity Summit 2009, in reaction to Chalmers' presentation, Ray Kurzweil said he didn't think that AI would come out of A-life, but instead through reverse engineering the brain. I guess it depends on what you want out of AI. If you want to re-create human intelligence, then it's best to reverse engineer via brain scanning etc. (Kurzweil route), but if you are opting to create other AIs then A-life might be the fastest way. What do you think? 

Nikki Olson

 

11:53 pm
April 13, 2011


simple1248

California

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posts 21

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Post edited 7:16 pm - April 15, 2011 by simple1248


In my take on the classic mind-body problem the "body" is the agenda for which the mind contemplates. In the instance of A-life the algorithms that evolve do so to fulfill the parameters set forth by the programmers.

In the instance of the human mind it is designed to fulfill the agenda set forth the human body and it has done so by effectively synthesising solutions to problems relevant to the culture in which its brain/body develops, solutions that result in maximal survival and thus reproduction of the human body.

There is no clear line between human agenda (body) and the mind (emergent property of the brain). The sense of self or ego that individuals experience is the result of a lifetime of trial and error reinforced and molded through functions of a physiological reward system that would likely also need to be simulated.

If we reverse engineer a human brain algorithmically I believe its mind will initially reflect that of the mind of the brain from which it was copied right down to the hopes and fears. I imagine the brain used would be aware that it has been copied within a computer. This type of intelligence would be useful for certain things like carrying on a conversation or doing things that humans already do well.

Anyways, I need to post this half baked rant so I can get back to studying.

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